WHITE BURG AS THEY USED TO BE

H

Howard Ripley

Location
London
Last night we ate salmon en croute. So, wanting to have a nice white to go with it, I lined up my oldest bottles of burgundy, fully prepared to have to pour them down the sink due of course to oxidation. The oldest and the first I opened was Meursault Charmes 1989 Pierre Morey. I had little hope for this as it was 31 years old. I was totally surprised. The colour was golden without any hint of browning. The bouquet was just amazing. Incredibly intense and so complex. The flavour echoed the bouquet, the complex flavours dancing across the palate bewilderingly hinting at flowers, berries, a touch of spice and other flavours that I could not name, constantly changing. The finish just went on and on. This was how top white burgundies used to be. BRAVO to Pierre, a delightful man. Will we ever see the like again??
 
Howard, I remember a Pierre Morey Meursault Perrieres from the eighties you served a few years ago that was splendid... so I am not surprised...
 
It's always rather moving when one finds a white burgundy in the glorious maturity it used more regularly to attain. It's a shame that the premox record in this millennium at this domaine is no better than anywhere else.
 
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Sounds like a great wine and, in my experience, white Burgs of a similar age have been the same. A few have had a hint of natural oxidisation, but still very drinkable as the complexity of age surpasses it, and never anything like the dreaded pox where wines under 10 years old have been utterly undrinkable.
 
Sounds lovely Howard!

I had a few Pierre Morey Perrieres From 1988 and all were outstanding- last bottle drunk three years ago. All would still be excellent now I’d bet!
 
Forgive my ignorance, was white burg so oaky before in their young age? I found it rather irritating especially when the alcohol level is going up in some years.
 
Mark Carrington said:
I’m not sure why Tom’s needs to have his opinion independently corroborated, but there are a number of references to pre-moxed Pierre Morey in CellarTracker TNs recorded post 2000.
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Agreed Mark. If we’re not allowed to write such things without rigorously verified statistics to back it up nothing would get written here!!!

My sole experience of post 2000 Pierre Morey was a case of his Perrieres from 2005. First few bottles really excellent- remainder premoxed.
 
Mark Carrington said:
I’m not sure why Tom’s needs to have his opinion independently corroborated, but there are a number of references to pre-moxed Pierre Morey in CellarTracker TNs recorded post 2000.
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Indeed-it's not an opinion but a report of a widely experienced phenomenon. I note it particularly because I recall a conversation with M.Morey during which he assured me that his wines had not and would not oxidise prematurely; he is certainly by no means alone among producers in having at one time offered that assurance.
 
Simon Wheeler said:
I don’t think premox should imply negativity about the winemaker, unless they are a denier, plenty of excellent wine makers and domaines have had/have premox issues, if only it was as simple as being a good winemaker !
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Ultimately, the producer is responsible for the quality of their wine. For example, it is not good enough to hide behind the poor quality of the closure for a corked wine.
It has been a scandal that there has been much wringing of hands across the wine trade, but the only party which suffered any real consequence has been the consumer, with the exception of a handful producers/retailers. My approach has been to no longer buy from certain people.
On a positive note, Jasper says that Domaine Leflaive has cleaned up its act & the wines can now be purchased with confidence. I will consider buying again, though having moved onto new pastures, it is not certain I will return.
 
Mark Carrington said:
Ultimately, the producer is responsible for the quality of their wine. For example, it is not good enough to hide behind the poor quality of the closure for a corked wine.
It has been a scandal that there has been much wringing of hands across the wine trade, but the only party which suffered any real consequence has been the consumer, with the exception of a handful producers/retailers. My approach has been to no longer buy from certain people.
On a positive note, Jasper says that Domaine Leflaive has cleaned up its act & the wines can now be purchased with confidence. I will consider buying again, though having moved onto new pastures, it is not certain I will return.
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I think you're absolutely right at this stage, Mark, though when the problem was first manifest it was as much a surprise to producers as consumers; which doesn't mean they shouldn't have put their hands up.
 
Mark Carrington said:
Ultimately, the producer is responsible for the quality of their wine. For example, it is not good enough to hide behind the poor quality of the closure for a corked wine.
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However it would be unfair to pin poor storage faults on the winemaker, after the wines have left their cellars. The winemaker should be responsible for selecting best quality corks though and I agree they should take responsibility for a corked wine.

Mark Carrington said:
On a positive note, Jasper says that Domaine Leflaive has cleaned up its act & the wines can now be purchased with confidence. I will consider buying again, though having moved onto new pastures, it is not certain I will return.
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I doubt I will ever return to Leflaive either. Their whole attitude to pre-moxed wines stank, while they continued to wind up the prices to a point of unaffordability for me, making the question pretty much redundant anyway.
 
I’m of the view that premox is not oxidation but something else and that the wines come through it at a later stage and are quite drinkable again. I experienced many 6-10 year old bottles of premoxed wines in the early 00s. But now I’ll happily buy most things at auction where no one else seems to want them.

I’ve had loads of lovely bottles from 96-99 in the last 5 years and none oxidised. I’m now starting to look at 2000-2004. About 16 years at village/premier cru level is needed before they come round. Not sure at GC level as the only one I occasionally drink is Corton Charlemagne. May need 20 years at that level to be on the safe side.
 
Kevin, the wines you have enjoyed weren't poxed in the first place, the idea that all bottles from that period went bad is quite wrong-and in several cases, like Jadot, Leflaive and P.Morey for example, the problems started in this millennium.
 
Cases I bought from 1996-2002 vintages typically had a hit rate of 50% premox when I drank them at around 7-10 years old. Just like for everyone else.

I’m now buying cases from the late 90s vintages where I’m getting zero oxidation having finished the whole case.
 
kevin heatherington said:
I’m of the view that premox is not oxidation but something else and that the wines come through it at a later stage and are quite drinkable again. I experienced many 6-10 year old bottles of premoxed wines in the early 00s. But now I’ll happily buy most things at auction where no one else seems to want them.

I’ve had loads of lovely bottles from 96-99 in the last 5 years and none oxidised. I’m now starting to look at 2000-2004. About 16 years at village/premier cru level is needed before they come round. Not sure at GC level as the only one I occasionally drink is Corton Charlemagne. May need 20 years at that level to be on the safe side.
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Kevin, are you saying that all white Burgundies you've had from that era and that age have been in great nick? What size of a sample are you talking about? I'm more inclined to agree with Thom in that it is a purely random phenonemon and good wines and pox'd wines can be found in the same batch.
 
Clive Coates, Cote d'Or p.776:

"[1989] Meursault Charmes Pierre Morey

Medium colour. Plump, soft, gently oaky on the nose. Medium body. Not a lot of weight or depth. But balanced. Clean and fresh. Pleasant but not special. Fully ready. (09/92) Now-2000. 15.0"
 
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