White Bordeaux?

Alex Lake

Alex Lake

Location
Deep South of Cambridgeshire
A thread on Facebook featuring Domaine de Chevalier Blanc has left me wondering about this category.

I recall an offline at that fish restaurant down in South London where I came to the conclusion that white Bordeaux had the capability of being extremely good, but I wasn't prepared to pay the prices.

Not sure if that has changed.

It does seem that there is the seriously good stuff (eg. DdC and Haut Brion, etc) and then there's a whole load of "pretty good" stuff (eg. Floridene). However, I got the impression that the latter category doesn't even pretend to do what the first does in the way that can happen in Burgundy (where one can see in a cheap wine, a poor attempt at emulating the greats).

Any views on this? Or suggestions of where the biggest bang for the buck at under £30 can be found?
 
I've always had a preference for the cheaper and less grand whites from Entre-Deux-Mers - perfectly serviceable whites - there is something in the DDC Blanc and others that just dont seem to work for me.....I find them too rich.
 
Mark Carrington said:
My current go to for under £30 white 'Graves': Ch. Olivier. La Louvière is well priced but not as good as in the past.
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Mark, I agree. Ch.Olivier has some attractive complexity for a sensible price.
Like Tom, I've stopped buying DdC Blanc and other smarter bdx whites. The risk of premox is too high. At a DdC dinner in London 18mths ago Olivier Bernard took us through various vintages of DdC (white and red), and two of the four vintages of the white were off.. if he can't source reliable bottles then what hope have the rest of us got? I've decided that Graves/Pessac white is at its most delightful at the bargain end of the market. Cruzeau, L de Louviere etc are generally delicious, age nicely for a few years, and cost Eur12-15. They don't emulate the greats - but nonetheless a sweet spot!
 
Earlier this year, I (reluctantly) decided to give up on serious White Bordeaux too, also because of the alarming rate of POX. The good bottles are sensational, but it is an absolute lottery, at least as bad as White Burgundy and I know some forumites consider it to be even worse.

So once my last few bottles of 2005/06 Olivier and Fieuzal are gone, it will be another style/region consigned to history by me, and if anything I will go for the dry wines of Sauternes estates - nowhere near the level of serious Graves, but plenty of pleasure to be had and some relative value too. G de Guiraud, R de Rieussec etc.
 
I wish I liked those dry sauternes, but I have not, with the exception of the magnificent but unaffordable Ygrec.
It could easily be that that their ungainliness disappears with considerable age, though; I wonder if I can find an accidentally aged case or two? it probably doesn't help that most haven't been going very long.
 
Thom Blach said:
I wish I liked those dry sauternes, but I have not, with the exception of the magnificent but unaffordable Ygrec.
It could easily be that that their ungainliness disappears with considerable age, though; I wonder if I can find an accidentally aged case or two? it probably doesn't help that most haven't been going very long.
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Ungainly nails it. i still occasionally buy one in hope. Currently have Guiraud G '16 to try, at some stage.
BTW Rieussec & Guiraud go back to 60s & beyond & the best of a rag-tag bunch Doisy- Daëne to the 70s. Yet to drink one of them & reckon it would be worth buying another bottle.
 
I'm pretty sure we've had a thread on this before. IIRC it was when someone was seeking recommendations for lower-end examples of dry white Bordeaux.

The best of those in my view is Clos des Lunes Lune d'Argent, from the Dom de Chevalier stable. It's more than 50% semillon (70%, I think) and the rest Sauvignon Blanc. It ages well - the 2012 was very good last week and still had a good few years' life in it. That was bottled under Diam, so no risk of POx. The latest vintages are about £7 per bottle in bond, so around £11 all-in, which is a bargain. Other good ones at the lower end are Ch Villa Bel-Air (which until recently was owned by the Cazes family of Lynch Bages) and Ch Les Charmes Godard (from the Theinpoint family of VCC fame).

I love this style of wine (though Mrs B less so) but I think I might be one of those Richard has in mind when he says that some people have experienced an even higher rate of POx than with white Burgundy. That is indeed my experience, particularly with vintages from 2000 to 2006. Vintages from around 2010 have been free of the problem so far.
 
I agree with Colin, Clos de Lunes D'Argent is very good and punches well above its weight. It is also more akin to White Graves in style, whereas the dry Sauternes are quite a different creature.

In fact it was Colin who gifted me a bottle of this wine, introducing me to it.
 
I had a delicious Cötes de Bourg blanc, 2017 Château de la Grave with lunch today.

You may have to search them out, but wines like this at that price can hold their own with white wine from everywhere, even if the overall quality of inexpensive white Bordeaux is hardly earthshaking.

I also buy bag-in-box white Bourg from Château Mercier in Saint-Trojan (Côtes de Bourg).
At 16 euros for 3 liters, it is a steal.

Best regards,
Alex R.
 
I find it workmanlike. But at £9/bottle in a French Lidl, I took the bait.
  • 2017 Clos des Lunes Lune d'Argent - France, Bordeaux (02/02/2020)
    Straw coloured; subtly grassy, with a hint of wackiness; elegant; smooth, neat acidity, lightly spiced; harmonious. (88 pts.)
Posted from CellarTracker
My note is more positive than my recollection of the wine. It will be interesting to see how this develops.
 
By the way, I have been very, very impressed with Pavillon Blanc de Château Margaux in recent vintages.

I'm talking about 17 onward.

The improvement is quite recent.

AR
 
Richard Ward said:
So once my last few bottles of 2005/06 Olivier and Fieuzal are gone, it will be another style/region consigned to history by me, and if anything I will go for the dry wines of Sauternes estates - nowhere near the level of serious Graves, but plenty of pleasure to be had and some relative value too. G de Guiraud, R de Rieussec etc.
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I've been enjoying thos dry Sauternes you mention. Even when young. I've also enjoyed the dry Doisy-Daëne. The Lunes is very good too.
Another dry white that I've had a few times, but not for 4/5 years is the Blanc de Lynch-Bages.
 
Oooh, this Haut-Bergey 2006 is really rather lovely! Quite honeyed, quincey, waxy, distinguished. Twinset and pearls. Herbal, a bit of vanilla, pears. Moderate acidity. Long on the palate and finish (which goes a bit citrus pithy). Quite reminiscent of a white Rioja (perhaps halfway from a Gravonia to a Tondonia?). MUCH better than I was expecting.... I wonder where I got it from?

Clos des Lunes more sulphurous/gunpowder on the nose. Then more floral and fruity (even vaguely tropical) on the palate, slight hints of elderflower and cabbage, but a lively yet still creamy acidity. Reasonable palate length, blossom on finish. Nice. Again, an over-performer, although not as classy/special as the HB.

With more air, the CdL seems to be gaining a little more heft and is drifting towards a warmer Rhone style (could be the serving temperature?).

Interestingly, both of these wines aren't that cold (perhaps 12 degrees?) and are both the better for it. I think.

I reckon that these are the kinds of wines that reward tasting. If I'd had them served at fridge temperature, I'd have enjoyed them as decent quaffs - perhaps even lamented a little freshness. But when given some attention, they show some style and substance that have cheered me up...

I enjoyed that. Just a shame nobody else here to share my enthusiasm.

Edit: I think the H-B 2006 was in an offer from Lay & Wheeler in 2014, priced at £159/12 IB.
 
Colin Bradley said:
That was bottled under Diam, so no risk of POx.
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Is that definitely the case Colin? I had understood that the POx problem was down to more than just the cork and included pneumatic presses, different phenolic ripeness, sulphur regimes etc. but I would be delighted if this was right.
 
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