What did Jasper get wrong? (Burgundy)

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Brady Daniels, Feb 4, 2020.

  1. Inside Burgundy by Jasper Morris is many burg lovers' go-to reference. He is working on a new edition of the book because it was published ten years ago, and much has changed since then. I suspect that because Jasper has since left his wine buyer role, he will provide even more revealing opinions.

    I recently asked Jasper if there was anything I can do to help. He humbly suggested compiling a list of things he got wrong in the first edition.

    I thought it also worthwhile to accumulate a list of what’s changed since the first edition. Jasper lives in Burgundy, and he probably knows of more changes than any of us, but perhaps he’ll glean something he hadn’t heard. If nothing else, these contributions will be fun for the board burg lovers to read.

    So, here are my questions:

    1) Have you found any errors in the first edition of Inside Burgundy? If so please reply and list them.

    2) Have you found things that have changed since the first edition of Inside Burgundy that should be updated? If so, please reply and list them.

    In both cases, if you have citations that can support your claim, that would be helpful to include.

    Please note, we are not looking for opinions or disagreements at this time. Just errors in matters of fact.

    Let’s help make the next version of Jasper’s tome even better. Thank you!
  2. Yes the title is intentionally provocative. But the request is serious. Thanks!
    Leon Marks likes this.
  3. I must confess that rather than finding errors I have come to see that some vintage assessments which seemed dubious to me at the time were entirely correct- but I shall have a look for mistakes.
  4. One change might be the growth of the micro-negotiants eg Haisma, Le Grappin, Eyre and others, popular round these parts.
  5. Not a mistake, but i think Jasper can be a bit more opinionated this time!

    BTW That's not a critisism as has already been stated:

    Last edited: Feb 4, 2020
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  6. Roughly when is the book expected to be published? I'm looking forward to it.
    Graham Harvey likes this.
  7. From the Styles of Beaujolais thread, Nick:

    "when I finish it....
    Jane Anson's Inside Bordeaux comes out in April and Inside Burgundy Mark 2 no more than a year later, less if I can do it!"
    Nick Amis and Mark Carrington like this.
  8. It's perhaps not what you're asking for, but I would find it an easier read if he could distinguish between "however" followed by a comma and "however" without a comma, as they mean different things. The commas seem to have been left out of the first edition.
  9. Just keep all the beautiful maps. The maps combined with the detailed descriptions really worked well for me.
  10. Hudelot-Noëllat is incorrectly listed as being in Vougeot. It is just down the street from Vougeot, but the estate is in the commune of Chambolle-Musigny, as indicated on the labels.
  11. Intriguing Claude

    I am not sure it was a mistake at the time of the first edition because it looks to me as though the boundaries have been redrawn. Original Pitiot has those houses around Domaine H-N in Vougeot and his latest one does not.
    H-N website says Ancienne RN 74, 21220 Chambolle-Musigny but the official yellow pages telephone directory still says Address: RN 74, 21640 Vougeot

    Common sense says it is Vougeot in any case and I may choose to stay with that - will consult with Charles
    Antti Jokinen and johnny Shek like this.
  12. I'm fairly certain that it was a mistake by Sylvain Pitiot, Jasper. E.g., the maps in Johnson's World Atlas of Wine going all the way back to the first edition in 1971 all show the Vougoet/Chambolle border at a bit south of the D122 (the road that goes up to the village of Chambolle) and H-N is to the north of that road; and if you google old H-N labels, they all say Chambolle-Musigny.

    Edited for clarity.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  13. Actually a closer study of Pitiot does in fact show it as you suggest when you look at the Chambolle page - I drew a different conclusion when I looked at the Vougeot page last night.

    Very counter-intuitive though as there is clearly a hamlet of Vougeot separate from the village of Chambolle. Hanson and Coates both put him in Vougeot. I will consult with Charles for his preference. Mine would be to leave him in Vougeot but include an explanatory footnote
  14. Last time I cycled down the steep hill past the chateau to Vougeot village, I'm pretty sure HN was there on the perpendicular road that cuts through the village, parallel to, and joining the RN74 at both ends of the village.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  15. Exactly right Johnny, but it would seem that officially the houses above the perpendicular road (and left of the road you cycled down) are part of Chambolle! The vineyard they back on to is Chambolle-Musigny Les Nazoires.
  16. But isn't that just a viticultural definition. Surely, it's geographical location shouldn't be defined by the viticultural boundaries. ie. if it is part of the village of Vougeot, it is part of Vougeot!

    (edit) But I guess if we are talking about labels then it is the viticultural definition that should be on the bottle (at least the front label, anyway!)
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  17. I've just started reading this (first edition) may take me 10 years to get through!
  18. You, Clive, and Anthony are not the only ones -- also Remington Norman (who occasionally appears on this board), Robert Parker, and Hugh Johnson (Pocket Encyclopedia) also list it as Vougeot. I don't see Allen Meadows, Galloni/Neil Martin, and William Kelley's publications, so I don't know what they say.

    As to those who say it doesn't make any difference, ask the fiscal officers of Chambolle-Musigny and Vougeot.
  19. Meadows lists it as Vougeot. As far as I can see, Vinous just carries domaine name and individual wine reviews.

    Perhaps more pertinently, the domaine’s own website says they’re in Vougeot.

    Edit: having said that, the text describes them as being in Vougeot, but the contact address states Chambolle-Musigny.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  20. For a definitive ruling I would ask their postman.
  21. I think the position is clear now:

    the postal and 'political' address is Chambolle

    The common sense location is Vougeot
    johnny Shek and Mark Carrington like this.
  22. One of the interesting border situations leading to confusion is on the German/French border by northern Alsace and the Southern Pfalz. Outstanding German producers such as Becker and Bernhart live in the German village of Schweigen but have vines in Alsace, and they bottle wine from those vines as German wine from the Pfalz. The nearest town in France, about .5 km from Schweigen, is Wissembourg. Schweigen is very much a German town and Wissembourg is very much a French one -- no mistaking which country you're in.

    There are also some interesting border issues with the Rheinhessen in Germany -- at the northern end around Bingen where the vineyards go between Rheinhessen and Nahe, and at the southern edge, where they go between Rheinhessen and Pfalz.
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  23. Last time I went there, Hudelot Noellat was just across the street from Clerget a few hundred yards from Hotel Vougeot (clearly in Vougeot!) where I stayed.
    But it is clear that the village of Vougeot lies on both Vougeot and Chambolle communes as well as on Gilly les Citeaux commune (across the road!) while the village of Chambolle is further away... so if you want to go to Hudelot Noellat, you better go to Vougeot but his place is probably on the commune of Chambolle at Vougeot.
    I wonder whether Clerget has the same issue, probably even more complex! The house may be in Vougeot village on Gilly les citeaux commune while his winery on the other side of the road is either on Chambolle or Vougeot commune.... while his "Vosne village" plot is in Flagey Echezeaux commune... go figure.... this is Burgundy!

    If you want to understand the issue, I provide the link from Patrick Essa with the map!
    Les Premiers Crus de Chambolle-Musigny sont-ils les vins les plus fins de Bourgogne? - Patrick Essa: Pour une Encyclopédie des vins de Bourgogne
    Nick Amis likes this.
  24. It's all bit like the lieux dits/climats discussion!
    Mark Carrington likes this.
  25. I should have also mentioned the Italian(Friuli)/Slovenian border as yet another area where one producer may have holdings on both sides of the border, and I think that may be the case a little further south near Trieste, too.

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