Ooni Pizza Ovens

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Richard Ward, Oct 13, 2019.

  1. Wonder what the rationale is in skillet and not high oven cook. Bought some caputo 00, active dried yeast and ran through bread maker.
    Left covered then after stretching put onto hot pizza tray prepped and into oven about 230C. I was wondering as to value, or not in going higher say to 250C.
    Boys said it was the second best pizza in the world but for them nobody will beat pizza express. (They are only 7).
     
  2. You can't get the same heat in to the underside of the base in the oven so it won't be as crispy as the skillet method. He says having done it just the once....
     
    Mike Humphreys likes this.
  3. It's really much faster, Mike, which means you can cook and explode the dough without drying the garnish. It takes at least 20 minutes to cook a pizza at 230C, though some much smarter ovens than mine can do a pretty decent job at a considerably higher temperature than that.
     
    Mike Humphreys likes this.
  4. No reason not to put it in your suitcase, Filippo.
    I love this story The day I ordered pizza that 'doesn't exist'
     
  5. I refer you gentlemen to the very useful book recommended by the Good Doctor earlier in the thread.

    In essence, if you want to cook a pizza in the oven you can (and they also recommend and explain Tom’s skillet method), but you need a different dough to he one required for cooking in a pizza oven (Ooni or otherwise). For the oven, because of the longer cooking time you need a relatively high hydration dough of around 70% -75% For the super hot pizza oven you would produce a low hydration dough of around 60-62%.

    The thing about the flours is that you can use anything really (within reason). The lower the protein level the more extensible the dough will be. You will get a very good gluten network which allows a puffy dough (if that’s what you want) with strong bread flour (say 15g+) but at the cost of it being difficult to roll out or hand form. If you use a lower protein flour you will get a slightly less puffy pizza but something you could form easily into a thinner crispier style (again, if that’s what you want) because of its extensibility.

    As Tom points out the O and OO are red herrings in that they are levels of grind, 0 being slightly coarser and 00 finer. They do have an effect on the pick up of water though so beware. A 00 flour pizza would have a slightly silkier crust (again, if that’s what you want) and the 0 a slightly more rustic feel in the mouth. It is perfectly possible to have an 0 grind with 16% protein and 00 with 12%. In fact I use a blend of precisely these two flours. Both Italian milled, one with Manitoba grain and the other with Italian grain as the feedstock.
     
  6. Ok great makes sense. Faster cook time and higher direct heat on top sounds good. Will try on the next batch.
     
  7. Two of tonight’s three efforts. Apologies for the ridiculous toppings (dressed by HRH and The Dustbin) but the reach into the wider community of “heathens” is perhaps wider than any of us can have otherwise have previously imagined.

    From “the book” a Roman Fresh Yeast Dough @ 65% Hydration.

    The basis of this is King Arthur Flour (in my case a mix of Italian milled “0” flour at ave. 14g protein) with added sugar, fresh yeast and olive oil. The dough is mixed and then almost immediately fermented in the fridge for twenty four hours, allowed to rise to room temperature for four or so hours at the end of the fermentation and then cooked at around 280C for approximately six or seven minutes (on a stone in the Weber outdoor gas fired beastie in my particular case).

    Cooks Notes

    The dough is a f*cking pig to deal with from the off until it’s finally on the peel.

    It’s meant to be mixed in a mixer (God knows you would scream if you had to do it by hand) being by description “loose and sticky” after it’s been formed in the mixer and so it was.

    Absolute gloop on the work surface where you’re supposed to carefully form it up into a “water balloon” with your scraper “with a little flour on your scraper and hands” but “none on the work surface”.... This is of course tricky but vaguely possible with extreme care and much diligence. Warning - if you so much as look at it, it will stick to you and anything in its immediate vicininity.

    Into the fermenting tray - careful it doesn’t stick to you or the scraper - and twenty four hours in the fridge to form itself into a sticky puddle.

    Out of the fridge to come up to room temperature where it slightly transforms itself from a sticky puddle into a slightly risen sticky puddle. Please don’t contemplate a visit to the chippy at this point as I did, you’re honestly nearly there....

    Out of the tray and on to the work surface. Buckets of flour required on the work surface. This seems to be a recurring theme throughout the book. I’m not quite at ease with this aspect of pizza making yet, but it seems to be necessary when doing the final forming pizzas of any sort that you must have a slightly wet dough and do the final forming knee deep in flour....

    With this particular dough the more you work it the more it resists. The trick seems to be to form the basic shape until it begins to resist, then rest it and start to form another. Go back to it in a minute or so and it will be sufficiently relaxed to let you expand it further. Repeat ad infinitum until you have your size and shape.

    Did I mention that the dough is a f*cking pig”?

    On the stone it was pretty forgiving. Set reasonably quickly and was easy to see what was happening. Hurrah!!


    D5FD98E4-8E4A-45EA-BB87-AB04D7572BB5.jpeg




    52F57659-1E57-4E43-A842-19C50DFAD34A.jpeg

    The result was pretty much as described in the book as the author’s “go to dough”. I can see why, as it is pretty much as I might expect in a good commercial pizzeria. Slightly sweet, not too salty, slightly puffy but with sufficient density to provide some chew and a crispy base. Really easy to eat, being not too filling but with just enough substance to make it feel like you’re actually eating something.

    Score: Extremely Challenging Fun ***
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2020
  8. Are the Ooni the "best" or are they just very good at marketing? For example how does it compare against the Gozney Roccbox (discovered through Tom Aikens Instagram) and other competitors.

    I like that there is the L shaped flame on the Ooni 16 but will this really make a difference (faster cook time I assume).

    Now just to stop buying boxes of wine so I can afford one....
     
  9. I think there's a name for the special kind of personal accounting that means that a £500 wine purchase contemplated but not executed is a £500 credit to one's disposable income account, but I can't remember what it is.
     
  10. Alice's Law of Compensatory Income. See Calvin Trillin. Oddly, I enjoyed reading about it last night, and five hundred dollars is his first example. Money not spent on luxuries that have been briefly considered can be then deemed as money saved, and hence available for spending without concern.
     
  11. That's it-I knew I'd seen it recently!
     
  12. Q. - What’s “a £500 wine purchase contemplated but not executed”?

    A. - A delusional fantasy.
     
  13. Actually a Google corrects my memory, and it's Alice's Law of Compensatory Cash-Flow.

    The same session of sweet silent googling yielded, not the original article, but a reference to it in Trillin's memorial to Alice:

    Alice, Off the Page

    ...and Alice's own article in the New England Journal of Medicine, from more than a quarter century before, on being diagnosed with cancer:

    https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM198103193041204

    I know this is a thread about pizza ovens, but the pieces are so lovely I can't help but urge you to read them. Also, I've got no pizza related photos or experiences to contribute.
     
    Mark Palmer and Nigel Palesford like this.
  14. One rather hopes that that will be remedied next time the food colouring comes out.

    Mrs. Trilling's magnificent piece reminds us that the study of philosophy is indeed largely about coming to terms with our own mortality.
     
  15. Food colouring? I'd thought it might lower the tone irreparably. Let it come down. Offended supporters of high culture will have to take my word for the fact that the tatty cloth here is in fact an embroidered tea towel from All Soul's College, and hence a token nod to the traditions so undermined by the pizzas resting on it.

    IMG_1141.jpg

    In my defense, I've not posted the picture of the electric blue pizzas, the topaz jewels in the garish crown. But that's only because the file format is disliked by the forum software.
     

    Attached Files:

    Andrew Blunsden and Thom Blach like this.
  16. A great recommendation, and his up to date piece about only giving his daughter’s accommodation 3 stars on Trip-Advisor shows he is still on the money.
     
  17. 20200524_184201.jpg 20200524_182702.jpg

    Decided to crank up the Kettle Pizza this weekend with fairly decent results. 72% hydration sourdough base which was delicious although could have been slightly crispier underneath.

    I've been fortunate to receive a selection of excellent baby veg from a chap in Ardleigh over the last few weeks. Shaved baby fennel with home cured bacon made for an absolutely superb pizza topping. Not sure how the purists would feel about this!
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Back to the Neapolitan dough to restore some credibility...

    4038240E-A74F-44D3-B585-1C97259BEEEA.jpeg 8525D1E2-AD37-4904-93EF-091567808D61.jpeg 009A82C0-0D65-4638-9733-4602EA7011E0.jpeg

    Three pizzas, all similar in quality. Wow, after the slight misgivings last time I’m coming to the conclusion that this is a great dough. It looks absolutely nothing right up until it’s on the stone, where it magically comes to life. A tiny rim swells and forms itself into the wonder that you see. Light yet somehow substantial. Base remains relatively thin yet is still crispy. Got to resist the temptation to just make this one and be done with it.

    Dustbin happy (and full)...

    Score: Incongruous until it’s cooked *****
     
  19. Mark, this looks fabulous.
    Is it my imagination or have you already posted your Neapolitan sourdough style recipe somewhere on the forum? Have looked in vain so I can only assume it must be hidden in one of the very darkest crevices of Nerds' Corner.
    Could you put me out of my misery? Cheers, Will
     
  20. I think it went on the Lockdown Loaves thread. But only a picture. The recipe is not mine it’s from Ian’s recommended book Mastering Pizza. This is the Old Style Naples Dough at 70% Hydration.

    For your monster you’d want the Naples Dough at 60% Hydration or the Old School Naples Dough at 60% Hydration which are meant to be cooked for 90 seconds at 480C. The former is a two stage process meant to be made over two days, the latter a same day extravaganza. Let me know which interests you....
     
  21. Which flour are you using, Mark?
     
  22. F0B7E70D-4EB3-4E8C-8E2B-15BFAC5DCB95.jpeg


    A mix of these two Mulino Marina flours Tom. Though this one had a small addition of Marriages Canadian as I was finishing up the two packets didn’t want to open two new packets of flour, thus for the above pizzas about a third of each flour. Interesting to note how much more difficult it was to form with the addition of a slightly higher percentage of high protein flour. The Manitoba is 16%, the Marriages about the same and the Tipo O Bio is 12.5%.
     
  23. The old school/same day one sounds good to me, Mark. Thanks!

    I was interested to read your observation regarding lower hydration when baking at higher temps as it chimed with my own findings from baking sourdough loaves at 280-300C in my baking oven. I'd always wondered why I could get away with 60% hydration at these temps.
     
  24. Isn't the Marriages 15%? as with wine I think the extra percentage point can make quite a difference. Still giving an overall 14.5%, which is interestingly high and would seem to need at least 70% hydration to be easily stretchable-though oil very much impedes gluten formation and may make it easier. I am trying not to buy your book as I have thousands too many food books but I daresay I will yield eventually.
    I wish I knew more about flour.
     
  25. You may well be right about the Marriage’s Tom.

    Incidentally there is no oil in the recipe. In fact very few of the recipes contain oil in the dough, the Roman one last week being one of that number.

    Flour is quite fascinating as a subject for such a thing as is pretty much taken for granted. A nice bit of background listening Log In with Email | Listen Notes on the subject for you whilst you’re jogging on the spot or whatever it is you do these days.....
     

Share This Page