Food Lockdown Loaves

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Bryan Collins, Mar 20, 2020.

  1. Wet.

    Welcome to my world, although you ain’t seen wet until you’ve done the 100% wholemeal @100% hydration. I might go for the sticky gloop world record and use a pure rye starter instead.
    Thom Blach and Bryan Collins like this.
  2. Pizzas tomorrow for me too. 1st attempt at a recipe from out of the pizza book. Made with fresh yeast just to try (nothing like doing the obviously stupid and trying a new recipe from a new book and using unfamiliar ingredients) and guess what? Six hour first ferment at room temp + three hour secondary rise after balling the dough? Well, after six hours this is definitely fermenting, but at the pace of “a week in lockdown”. Didn’t bother balling, just chucked it in the cellar for overnight fermentation. Will have a look in tomorrow morning and see if it needs all day in the cellar, or all day on the countertop......
  3. I should record that I've been unfair to this flour, it needs slightly lower hydration, a seasoning of brown flour and absolutely minimal handling to make a very nice loaf indeed.
    Nigel Lierop and Andy Leslie like this.
  4. Horses for courses...

    I'm palling of battling with higher hydration loaves, although that's partly because I had to rescue an impending disaster with a batch of pouring consistency spelt dough with additional flour. The resulting 65% hydration loaf turned out OK and I've learnt that spelt likes neither high hydration nor generous oven spring.
  5. Perfect timing, serendipitously, for me as I will be preparing a spelt loaf tomorrow ans was wondering what to try for hydration. I have yet to produce a good spelt loaf.
  6. Spelt behaves quite differently to modern wheat. The dough isn't strong and proves quickly, so watching temperature and timing is important.
    G. W o l f f and Thom Blach like this.
  7. Hmmm. So after throwing the dough in the cellar overnight and letting it sit on the countertop for most of the day I resumed the great pizza quest.


    The mission was a “classic Neapolitan” pizza with relatively high hydration (70%) to be cooked at around 300C. The more authentic 60% hydration dough is meant to be cooked in 90 seconds at around 420C plus ie. wood fired dedicated pizza oven. This dough is technically meant to be cooked at around 6-7 minutes in a home oven. I cooked at around 310C in the Weber on a stone and this took around 5-6 minutes. I’d say that the book was pretty much spot on with regard to the science, though where they got 6 hours rise time from with such a tiny amount of fresh yeast I have no clue.

    The dough for this type of pizza is meant to be lightly crispy on the outside, airy and very tender inside and again the theory married exactly with what was produced. It was meltingly light in the middle, like I’ve never experienced before (see picture below for a clue as to why). HRH was the most satisfied and reckoned this was the best pizza I’d ever produced. The Dustbin and myself were a little less enamoured with this style. For me the flavour was a little bland (ok I did a full white flour version this time - I know that the addition of even 10% of brown flours would help enormously because I would normally add at least that much) and it was a fraction too salty for my taste (again brown flours would help the balance here).


    Next on the agenda will probably be a Roman style pizza and I think from what I’ve seen so far I can pretty much trust the book to give me something that works.

    Thanks once again Ian!
  8. It looks sensational, Mark. How much salt is prescribed?
  9. Total dough weight was 825g and for that salt was 13g.
  10. That's a fair bit, though nothing like the 3% of flour weight some American recipes prescribe!
    What are your thoughts on fresh vs dry vs leaven?
  11. I don’t own any dried yeast and can’t recall ever having used it, so on that I have no opinion!

    Apart from the technical issue I had with the amounts of fresh yeast to be used, it was fairly straightforward and gives you the advantage that you don’t have to think about building up a starter well prior to making a pizza. As for flavour I think it’s pretty one-note. I suppose that most of us would think that that is the yeasty flavour that we’d expect to find in a pizza (and most commercial bread for that matter) and to that extent it works.

    To draw a wine analogy, when I first started drinking Northern Rhône Reds the styles I was exposed to were mostly relatively high in new oak usage and I thought that part of the flavour profile. As I’ve drunk more widely I’ve gravitated towards wines that are very low in new oak content, or no new oak content because I think it allows the flavours of the grapes (and possibly stems) to shine.

    Nearly all of my experience of bread and pizza making has been with a natural leaven and I feel completely comfortable with the flavours it brings (or doesn’t bring) and the mechanics of using it. I can’t see any benefit that either of the other two would bring tbh.
    Last edited: May 10, 2020
  12. Rye starter, 30% whole meal and 70% bread flour.
    A2DD4B63-FE49-4930-9D91-C09BEC628FEC.jpeg CD51F359-42CD-469B-B02B-FDFD01148D04.jpeg
  13. Welcome to Nerdsville Sean.
  14. An interesting analogy. It seems that natural leaven has never been traditional in Southern Italy because the great heat makes it uncontrollable whereas yeast if used in tiny enough quantities is reliable even in tropical conditions. It won't have much yeasty taste used thus, and airconditioning has of course changed all that; the young Turks of the pizza world have embraced natural leaven, though an actual sour taste is I believe considered a fault in all Italian breads.
    There were rather few proponents of extreme new oak in its 1990s heyday who wanted their wines to taste of oak; the best succeeded absolutely in the end as it turned out, but many did not. The timescale is of course rather different even with the longest fermentation of dough!
    Mark Palmer likes this.
  15. Just to prove we don’t only eat sourdough... Yeasted enriched buns (a little milk and butter in the dough along with one egg and a couple of tbsp of sugar.) The ones that started on the bottom shelf are a bit unevenly risen - I’ll bake in two batches next time.

  16. E483769D-0D92-422B-AFC9-1DD0CEC2A84E.jpeg Coincidentally, I’ve just made these this morning from yeasted, enriched dough. Big boys( about 145g of dough per boule), the Pimenton tin provides scale!
    Burgers tonight so some CNDP beckons.
  17. What's the recipe, Jim?
  18. From BBC Good Food for Soft Burger Buns. It was one of the few which didn’t call for the use of a posh, table-top mixer, which I don’t possess. About 10 minutes kneading produced a silky texture and once divided, about one hour rise above the boiler and about 15 minutes at 180C. I’m sure not the most complex of flavours but terribly simple and quite impressive in their way.
    Thom Blach likes this.
  19. Could be a useful size for The Dustbin. A couple of these with a twelve oz hamburger on each could keep him going for two or three hours.....
    Jim Agar likes this.
  20. 5A5167E0-C71B-40F2-A1FF-FCEB973D7140.jpeg Only managed a 7oz Chuck Steak burger in mine.
  21. Could someone please explain to me modern hamburger etiquette? even as large a mouth as mine cannot bite down upon the whole assembly, so how does disassembly correctly take place?
  22. Mouth only for me!
  23. Open wide Jim !!!
  24. I annoy my half American son by using a knife and fork with a hamburger and with pizza. I find it really, really hard to use my fingers to eat hot food because it feels a touch barbarous - something to do with my upbringing I suppose.
    Andrew Stevenson likes this.

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