Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Stefan Bogdanski, Mar 6, 2020.
I've found them very snotty when I've dealt with them. If they don't want my money....
For many years, they were my most active merchant, now I hardly ever buy anything through them.
Have only ever bought Andre Perret and the odd bit of claret from them without issue. The only human interaction I've had with them has been via their Accounts which has never been a problem.
I once had a bottle of Tyrrell's Vat 9 whose cork failed - by the time I noticed it, the bottle was about two thirds full. I wrote to them and they sent a replacement straight away.
Obviously, not the most important thing in the world at the moment, but here's an update anyway.
Following support on here, I wrote to the MD (as Ian suggested) who has now apologised for the tone of the previous emails, has refunded the bottle and has assured me that in future they will continue to refund corked bottles, with the (usual) proviso that they generally want the bottle back. I think it was good of Chad to take the time to reply to me, especially as the Covid-19 crisis had just started unfolding.
A positive outcome then and, given these reassurances, I'll continue buying from J&B. Thanks everyone!
Good result Stefan and well done on persisting. From their perspective it is worse if a client resolves never to buy from them again
Pleased that they finally came to their senses and admitted they were wrong. It's not unreasonable if you complain about a corked bottle for them to want to have it back especially if they are trying to claim reimbursement further back in the chain. Pity they couldn't have been a bit more helpful to start with but better late than never. Perhaps some staff training is in order.
Yes, I understand why they would want a bottle back in general, so no problem there. As you say, John, hopefully they will use this to adjust their customer service on this side of things in the future.
Hair raising experience with them this week. I emailed to ask whether I could pay an outstanding storage invoice via their website (seems a pretty basis requirement!) but no. Instead I was invited to email my credit card details over on a form provided. God help them if anyone hacks their email system; they'll be whacked with a mammoth fine. I did point this out but was told that customers like to email their card details over.
I send corked bottles back if I’m in a restaurant but not if drinking at home.
It's pretty rare for a UK business suggest this in my experience, though extremely common in continental Europe and a lot of the Southern Hemisphere - so many blithely ask you to email your credit card details. In SOuth Africa recently, could I email my credit card details and photocopies of my passport and driver licence!!! On the very, very odd occasion when I've been persuaded its worth emailing a credit card I've insisted in doing it in three separate emails, with number, expiry and CVV. They think I'm nuts but at least I hope it's some level of security.
As an amusing (?) aside, I'd had a Makro membership for years which lapsed, and when we wanted to buy a specific model of TV several years ago I was tipped off that they had a great deal on it. So I reapplied and they asked me to bring passport or driver licence, a recent utility bill with home address details, and a copy of a bank account statement into a store to register at the reception. I was absolutey astonished when they said they had to retain all three, and they would be posted back to me 'in a few days'. I've no idea why I agreed, I guess I was there and wanted the TV, so we went off to shop. As I was leaving I glanced over at the reception desk, and there was nobody there, but my three bits of ID were sitting on the public counter, exactly where they'd been left 20 minutes previously. To say I kicked up a stink is an understatement, also cancelling my membership and wheeling the TV round for a refund.
Given that they're part of a large PLC it's all the more shocking. I have messaged Diageo's General Counsel via LinkedIn and will be interested to see whether I get a response...
That's appalling Tom - not surprised you kicked up!
You can't be too careful (I work in IT for a major bank). I also go a step further and send part by email and part by SMS and part by telephone. Of course, what can't be guaranteed is that it is not all written down and subsequently destroyed after use
I almost had a heart attack when booking a taxi transfer in Turkey online a few years ago using what seemed a secure system, only to find when the booking agent forwarded me an email with my transfer details, the email included all my complete card details in plaintext. That card got cancelled fairly quickly, as it was in the days before you could get real-time push notifications for any spend. More recently I placed an order for an Indian takeaway where I usually pay when I go to pick it up, but they'd had to change their policy due to too many people placing orders and then never turning up. I had to ask the person taking my details not to repeat the numbers back to me, as you never know who can overhear them.
May I just throw into the ring how BBR unquestionably changed a whole case of white burgundy that had issues, a few weeks ago
Delivered promptly, and picked up. Fantastic service.
Similar to Paul, If providing card details unencrypted, I use two separate methods of communication. Paranoid? Me? Too right.
As the saying goes, it doesn't mean they're not out to get you, Mark!
I don't think it has been mentioned yet, but we are not able to pursue claims under the Consumer Rights Act after 6 years (5 in Scotland). This of course makes the act pretty useless for TCA found in wines meant to be aged for over 6 years, though you would hope that merchants would still behave honourably. Of course, one could discuss what is honourable for wine that has been cellared for 20, 30, 40 years, even assuming the merchant is still in business after that period.
The 6 (or 5) year limitation is explained in note 105 here: Consumer Rights Act 2015 - Explanatory Notes
Before I saw this thread it had never even occurred to me that people would try to return wine that hadn't been recently purchased but I suppose that now some is so expensive it is not unreasonable to expect some kind of guarantee, which is not something that it has historically been possible to offer on aged wine.
Regardless of the law, my personal feeling is that there is a period in which it is reasonable to expect some sort of redress for faulty wine, and that period must depend on the fault and how long that particular wine is typically cellared for.
Similarly for purchases of mature wine - right to redress should depend on the fault and what can be reasonably expected of the wine.
Plenty of wiggle room in all that for interpretation - a minefield some might say - but it is easy to imagine extreme examples to illustrate the principle.
Note 105 is fairly clear that it is 6 years post contract which is what I assumed when I posted on this much earlier in the thread.
The funny thing is that if you buy a wine EP, and then store either at home or with a merchant, you have 6 years post purchase i.e. till the wine is about 7 years of age to make a claim for say a corked wine which makes it virtually impossible to claim for many age worthy wines such as fine Bordeaux or Rhone or Burgundy. However if you buy a 10 year old wine from a merchant you have a further 6 years to claim, till the wine is 16 years of age. So perhaps another reason to buy when you are ready to drink it as opposed to buying to store. I take your point though as to whether that would be appropriate and other factors could/would come into play.
Not that I'm in the market for DRC but if I'd paid 10K for an old bottle of La Tache I'd be pretty annoyed if it was corked and I'd hope the merchant would be co-operative but I wonder would they.
I have had people try to return wine that they didn't even buy from me. I am talking about wines I don't even stock
Most brokers will be quite clear that a mature bottle is purchased with risk attached, which seems fair enough to me. The broker or vendor will have no recourse.
FWIW I once returned a corked wine to a supermarket that at first claimed they never sold the wine. On checking though, they discovered that one branch at the other end of the other end of the country had once stocked it, so a refund was possible afterall!
I was convinced I bought the wine from the branch I returned it to, and was still convinced after the event too, so gratefully took the refund. But I also know how easy it is to be mistaken regarding something you are certain about.
Results from a human searching computer records are not infallible either. Not that I am suggesting it in your case, Richard - it's just general musing - and at least trying to say that "false returners" are not necessarily being intentionally dishonest.
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