Haut-Bailly at 67 Pall Mall

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Ian Hampsted, May 26, 2020.

  1. Slight tangent - I see for £10 a month you can join as a virtual member.

    Lot of tastings on some days 5 in a row :eek::eek::eek:

    Quite an interesting if rather financially ruinous way to spend a day (if you have no other distractions).

    What are the sample sizes Ian (or anyone else) please - and are they uniform or is there variance between the tastings?
  2. They are all c 75ml - certainly enough to get a feel for the wines, but generally expensive per ml of wine vs buying a whole bottle at retail.
  3. Includes decanting, (timely) delivery, excellent packaging, temperature monitoring, 'tasting mat', so VFM, IMO. But as Gary says potentially financially ruinous. :eek:
    Still deciding which to buy next, though Coutet is a definite.
    The other problem is that a couple of presenters were so engaging that I was subsequently lured into buying some of their wine.........
  4. exactly - have suspended buying wine so far as possible and limited myself to two packs per week, but still works out expensive. Fun though!
  5. Subs apart, I’ve spent as much with the club whilst it’s been closed than I did in the previous year or more.

    I also feel the prices are fair enough when you take into account what they do and deliver. Every sample I’ve received has been in good condition.
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  6. Thanks Mark and Nick - yes very expensive if you consider the bottle price but as pointed out there’s a lot of overhead in preparing and delivering.

    75cl is enough for one but not enough to share really, so it would be too expensive as I’d not get away with doing it on my own.;)

    Got a Zoom tomorrow - mixed Chard and PN - 6 bottles - £150, obviously not the same quality, but the opposite prob of too much wine, mind you it’s the rest of the weekend sorted!!!
  7. I am looking forward to Ch. Giscours a week today where the line up is 16/15/10/05/00/95.

    Getting back to Haut-Bailly I managed to dig up the thread for Simon’s Medlar dinner, which was in October 2016, where the range was 1970-2004.

    TN - Simon's Haut Bailly Dinner

    I remember going in with high expectations and coming away a bit nonplussed and underwhelmed. My watchword for these wines was austerity. In BWE I was corrected by an expert who informed that minerality is the appropriate leitmotif for the pre-Veronique era of Haut-Bailly, and I can see he has a point. Even though I have drunk through the best part of a case I am yet to be convinced that the 1998 is, or will turn out to be, a great wine. Maybe it is my bourgeois palate. But I have come to the conclusion that this estate has more than a little bit in common with Smith Haut Lafitte, which seems odd when the latter is a more overtly modern style. But both estates have emerged from mediocrity in the 70s, 80s and 90s to making splendiferous wines. SHL made super (red) wines in 02/04/06.

    Edit: one of my friends across the pond just reminded me that one of the standout wines at the BWE Colorado convention in March 2019 was the 1966 Haut-Bailly. That means we only need to wait on the 1998 for 20-30 more years.
    Last edited: May 28, 2020
  8. 66 Haut Bailly is superb. I was fortunate enough to pick up a six pack at auction 6-7 years ago and drank them over 3 years. All were absolutely stellar.

    Their wines from the 70, 80s and 90s are certainly variable and none I’ve had have been superb. though prices are keen. The 89 is pretty reliable. The 90 is not great. The 85 is ok. 82 is weak for the vintage. The 96 is pretty good but frustrating as it seems it should be better. Yet the little halves of 04 we bought in a consortium have been really delicious.

    I can’t wait to see how the 09, 10 and 16 turn out. As you’ve said they are all really super. Not sure how long to wait. Though I’m sure not as long as the 66!
  9. Gareth, how can you miss out the sensational 1993, possibly the best wine in Bordeaux that year?
  10. Gosh. Not had it! And to be honest never heard anything about it. Though I admit my range of 93s is pretty limited (Cos, Montrose, Leoville Barton is probably all I think). You think it is still drinking well?
  11. There is a pair of mags for sale in a German auction in June, both perfect fill and labels, worth a punt at €200 for the pair you think?
  12. I recall the wonderful nose on the 88 at the Medlar dinner and the fruit on the 98.

    I didn't get the sense of place in the 09 in the 67PM tasting and don't know if it will come. Unlike the 09 SHL, which is superior. The latter is a big wine but it is Graves.
  13. Thanks for the notes Ian, really enjoying the write ups of these zoom sessions.

    Just to throw another opinion into the ring, we had a fantastic vertical of Haut Bailly back in '09 as part of Linden's FWE series.

    I couldn't find my own notes but Rupert's are available on CT and his thoughts pretty much chimed with my own and brought the tasting back to me.

    Haut Bailly came across as a top drawer terroir with consistently beautifully cool fruited, mineral, focused wine with excellent definition and detail.

    One key take away was - in the face of Parker's poor ratings - was just how consistent the wines actually were and occasionally knockout - note the '86 '64 '61 and '28 and indeed the '09/10 from the 67PM tasting.

    Around that I can echo Gareth's experience of the '66 - I picked up 3 bottles in N&P sale - '96 is a personal favorite though with a definite line of bell pepper and even a decent bottle of '82 though not a top wine in the vintage.

    At this time I went to many of these verticals and '05 was often the first on the block and consistently showed itself to be a serious and top drawer vintage - I would have total confidence in HB's ultimate destination.

    That said, I can also see that as the wines of Bordeaux have continued to refine tannin management and develop winemaking techniques that '05 may now seem more burly than it did before as '96 did, as '86 did and so on.

    I was massively impressed at the time and became a buyer but held off from '09/'10 because of big price jumps and the general trend to a bigger style. I was also worried they would do a
    Pontet Canet and the wines, however impressive, would be less to my personal tastes.

    Regarding the '08, I was sat next to VS at the above tasting and recall something about the '08 - I think it is possible that it is a birth year for a child and they pulled out all the stops but my memory might be playing tricks on me.

    Some interesting memories of the tasting were the historical opinion of the vineyard as of 1st growth quality in the early 20th Century and that as the Chateau had such low library stocks they were actively looking and buying in the market at the time. In fact, I think some of the wines tasted they did not have a single bottle left themselves.
  14. Gareth, I would take a punt on that. I found three bottles bin-ended at BBR shortly before I left in 2017, bought and enjoyed them - this is absolutely not a heavyweight wine but it was pure and fine with that somewhat ferrous quality that is typical of Haut Bailly. I think Pessac-Leognan had the best (or least bad) of the weather conditions in 1993

    A Clive Coates type of wine not a Robert M Parker style as already indicated above
    Alex Jagger likes this.
  15. I have a little Lafleur Jasper - also considered a candidate for WOTV!
    Chiu Lin likes this.
  16. Exceptional wine that 1993 Lafleur. Brought a bottle to my group tasting 2 years ago, few guys were busy sourcing the wine soon after.
    Alex Jagger likes this.
  17. I completely agree Chiu - a bottle a couple of NYE ago at The Harwood Arms was sublime, aristocratic and regal with loads left in the tank.
  18. Bought my Lafleur 93 from Jakes, operating a fine wine merchant out of a kebab shop in Essex. Was £65 all in.
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  19. Jakes Food & Wine? Always had an excellent service when using them but never thought to check them out on Google maps. They appear to specialise in burgers rather than kebabs. But no visible mention of wine. How curious. Still, won't put me off using them again in the future.
  20. Wine in that context tends to mean Carlsberg Special Brew.
  21. I purchased a Clos de Tart from them, to take to a Wimps. They were good to deal with, though I remember almost being put off by their business circumstances.
  22. Yes I’m glad he’s still going!

    We only went once in 2006!
  23. Interesting stuff! Although not sure where that leaves me with the single bottle of 1998 I picked up on cellartrade the other day.
  24. What a lot of nonsense is being peddled about the 2005 vintage. It has only been 14 years or so in bottle, for goodness sake. Almost all great vintages need time to come round (1961 in Bordeaux being the classic exception, and perhaps 1985 as well).

    To my mind, in Bordeaux, in a great vintage like 2005, the lesser wines afford a clear indication now of the quality of the fine wines currently festering in their shells, even though those wines are mostly at least 5-10 years off being ready, and some much longer.

    Over the last two years, we have been greatly enjoying Phelan Segur 2005 in magnums, Senejac, Blason de l'Evangile, and Durfort Vivens. Bahans Haut Brion is now coming on stream, and Duhart Milon in half bottles is also doing well. But many others, including GPL which can be quite forward in some vintages, need more time. This is as it should be.

    In Burgundy, the same principle applies in 2005. Some of the simpler generics and village wines, some of the the Hautes Cotes, and even some Beaune and MSD 1er Crus, are drinking well now, but so many others need another 5-10 years, or more (sometimes much more).

    2005 is manifestly a very great vintage, and it is just silly to assert otherwise.
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