Enter the World of Spätburgunder

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Martin Zwick, Sep 14, 2018.

  1. Meanwhile there are a lot of good Spätburgunder in Germany thanks to climate change and the development to more freshness&finesse instead of oak&power which was the characteristics 10-15 years ago.

    Here a litte selection (not always the best Spätburgunder of the estate, but really good ones and I guess more available). For example the best Spätburgunder for me is Keller "Morstein" but it is an auction wine. And also Fürst "Hundsrück" is certainly difficult to find.


    Fürst "Centgrafenberg"
    Huber "Wildenstein"
    Keller "Bürgel"
    F. Becker "St. Paul"
    Rings "Saumagen"
    Thörle "Hölle"
    Schnaitmann "Lämmler"
    Koch "Pinot Noir" Reserve
    Stodden "Rosenthal"
    Meyer-Näkel "Pfarrwingert"
    Heger "Häusleboden"


    Günther Steinmetz "Herrenberg"
    Benedikt Baltes "Klingenberg"
    Jülg "Pinot Noir"
    Möbitz "Köpfle"
    Wageck "Burgweg"
    Gutzler "Morstein"
    Siener "Kastanienbusch"

    Certainly I have forgotten to mention several producer, anyway here we have a good start into the World of Spätburgunder.

    Gin Gin,
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  2. Agree some are good but some prices are also very 'ambitious' - and I would guess these are justified by the fact that as wines in high demand they are easily sold out within the German market? Or is that unfair Martin?
    Nicos Neocleous likes this.
  3. No love for Ziereisen? I quite like their wines, particularly the Jaspis bottlings which seem a little less marked by oak.
  4. YES, sometimes the price are ambitious, for example in the case of Möbitz, BUT here we have a garage winery with a very small production. There are others which are cheap for example the Spätburgunder of Günther Steinmetz from the Mosel for around 25-30 Euro. Also "Centgrafenberg" from Fürst is fair priced in my view for around 35-40 Euro.

    BTW, they age great. Last winter I had a couples of Top-Spätburgunder from 2009 which really impressed me.
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2018
  5. Of course Ziereisen is a good Spätburgunder producer. I had some good ones and also some bad ones. Fair to say I haven't found the right access to the estate.
  6. +1
  7. Would also add Kreuzberg from the Ahr to that list!
  8. Fintan, Hanspeter gets my vote for best red winemaker in Germany. I say “red” because he makes a pretty good Syrah on top of the Pinots.

    Martin, I do like Jülg, but much prefer Becker up the road. I had the basic Spätburgunder from Becker last year from the 2010 vintage no less last year. It was a bottle I’d forgotten. It was lovely. That said, most of the Jülgs I’ve tried have been young.
    Fintan Kerr likes this.
  9. David,

    last november I had 2008 F. Becker "Pinot Noir" which is more or less the Top wine of the estate and it was still a baby.

    YES, Johannes Jülg is a rising star who makes also great Riesling&Chardonnay and was educated by KP Keller. Of course the red need time.
  10. Irritatingly, that's the one wine of theirs I haven't yet managed to track down; a shame, as I love the idea of German Syrah. Glad to hear my taste is in good company with yourself and Dan, though! I'm eagerly looking forward to having a small batch of their wines shipped over from Howard Ripley for a tasting sometime this winter.
  11. The other wine of his I really like is Gutedel, aka Chasselas. I used to be negative about Chasselas as I drank a lot of ordinary wines made from it (with very good friends from Geneva), but have had some crackers over recent years (Lavaux, Dominique Lucas south of Léman, and Ziereisen, who really do wonders with it, if you ever see any).

    I agree re the Jaspis Pinot/Späts, both straight and Alte Reben, but ive a soft spot for the entry level Tschuppen. There are a few juicy, fruity, German Pinots. You often find them from good estates. They aren’t complex but are still very good. Tschuppen is one IMHO.
    Fintan Kerr likes this.
  12. I had an offer of Benedikt Baites' wines from J & B today. Happy to forward it to anyone on request.
  13. We import from a winery in Pfalz - totally under the radar - three Spat in their range , £14ish, £22ish and £30ish. I think they are all frankly brilliant (and they've been picked by Wines of Germany to be in the top 50 with one wine or another for most of the last 5 years), but the interesting thing is that the cheapest is also our biggest selling German wine - by some margin. People are surprised when I tell them - and then they taste it and can see exactly why. No names as I am not advertising!
  14. Tim, would be interested to learn more can you message me a web site etc please.
  15. A few more suggestions (in no particular order and just off the top of my head, so there are others left out):

    Knipser -- seems to be back after a few disappointing vintages
    Markus Molitor
    Zehnthof Luckert
    Hofgut Falkenstein
    Franz Keller
    Bergdolt-St Lamprecht

    But beware, many disappointing 2016s at Wiesbaden GG preview, including from some very big names.

    I've had some quite drinkable negociant Spätburgunder from J. L. Wolf and Valckenberg in the past, but haven't tried any from them in 5-6 years, at least.
  16. What about J B Becker. I’ve had a few Spats and they are all “good” but all have some similar profile tastes that just leave me with a nagging doubt about how much I really like them. Julg fits into this but again was a 12 and 14 I think from memory,

    Now the 2013 J B Becker Spat Trocken Alte Reben I had last year really felt it could be something a little different. I plan to open another bottle early / mid next year to see how it’s going. Another few years I think it could be fantastic,

    I have the 15 Auslese Spatburgunder as well but that’s one to bury deep for a while I’d imagine.
  17. Tasted the Benedikt Baltes 2016 wines at the Justerinis German tasting last week - enjoyable and reasonably well priced but not the best wines on show.
    The Fürst "Centgrafenberg" and "Hundsruck" were probably my picks but at around £75 per bottle after tax for the Centgrafenberg and around twice that for the Hundsruck I don't think I'll be buying them.
  18. Great thread, thanks for starting it Martin.

  19. I love the Rieslings from JB Becker, but the Spätburgunder are not my taste. Maybe I should taste them aged?!
  20. Yes I think they need a good few years min. 8 - 10 years I think. I’ve not had one of that age yet but tasted the 13 at 5 years and it was intriguing. I read a review talking about how they were reminiscent of some of the 1930s and 40s by Ewald Schug so it’s a different old style I think.
    The few German Spatburgunders I’ve had are all good but there is something missing and a familiar taste so we probably like different things. Still wait until 2025 and try his 2015 s :)
    I’ve got some of the Alte Reben 2013s which I hope to be bit sooner though I bet they age for a very long time.
    (Just checked on WA and they have a window of 2017-2050 !!)
  21. 2012 Weingut Jülg Pinot Noir
    Deep colour; a polished, refined, inviting bouquet; mirrored on a relaxed palate. Not overwrought or overworked, this has a attractive feel. Drink now & next couple of years. 91 points.
    It isn’t try to be a Burgundy.
    Purchased as part of a bin-end parcel by a relative, in amongst plenty of desirable Mosel Riesling. Didn’t notice the price, at the time. This Jülg’s top release, I believe: not cheap nor indecently priced
    I’d buy again. I’ve said on only two previous occasions, after drinking a Spätburgunder.
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
    Fintan Kerr likes this.
  22. I but the mid level wine from Julg. The R I think. Very nice and well priced.
  23. No wonder, as Johannes Jülg is a novice of KP Keller.

    The younger vintages are even better I suspect due to the better climate conditions and learning curve by Johannes.

    BTW, I strongly recommend to visit the estate, as the family has a delicious&cozy Straußenwirtschaft (a little Bistro-Restaurant in the garden). Great dishes inspired by French products, as France border is nearby.

    P.S. the famous Spätburgunder estate F. Becker is around the corner (5min) of Jülg.
  24. A week ago I drank the Keller “S” 2012. Very good. Smooth and smokey (I mean in a good way).
  25. As you enjoyed the entry level Spätburgunder of Keller, you will be blown away by the 2015&2016 Keller Spätburgunder "Felix" from Morstein vineyard (auction).
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019

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