Burgundy 2015 - early thoughts

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by Simon Reilly, Dec 8, 2018.

  1. In the last couple of weeks, mainly because I just took delivery of them, I have opened the first 2 bottles of my 2015 burgundies. Entry level stuff but I am concerned based on this small sample that this vintage is not going to be to my tastes. Last weekend I opened a hautes cotes des nuits villages by berthaut-Gerbet and last night the same wine by Jane Eyre.

    I enjoyed both wines at en primeur tastings in January 2017 but both are now very sweet, almost jammy fruit with pretty much zero acidity. I’m not sure these can recover from where they are now but I’m going to leave the rest alone and hope for a miracle.

    It makes me worry about the future of more expensive bottles I have purchased. Anyone else had any similar experiences?
  2. I have thoroughly enjoyed all the 15s I’ve broached early.

    No experiences in any way like yours so far, from generics, villages and upto Ponmard 1er.

    I think it’s a top top vintage for reds, to be fair I’ve not had any that really resemble your findings from 09 either which was a warmer vintage.

    tbh even the ultra warm 03s had some acid.

    Don’t know either of the wines you mention, but if they tasted good at ep, I have to wonder whether they’ve been seriously cooked at some stage.

    Did you source them from the same supplier?
    Nicos Neocleous likes this.
  3. If so, and rereading your post it looks like they might have been, I’d be tempted to pull the cork on one of the “better bottles” and if it shows the same get straight on to your supplier.
  4. Don't worry. They called 2009 the 'American vintage.' Ripe, dark fruit, low acid. I find they have mellowed. Not shut down at all. Quite subtle now. Still dark fruited, but not 'big.' The acidity is easily sufficient to keep it fresh.

    Just my take. YMMV. :)
    Thom Blach likes this.
  5. They came from different merchants. I may try others over the festive period to test the theory...
  6. I agree with Johnny, nothing whatever to worry about, though I have not found my 09s rewarding yet. Tasting burgundy can be massively misleading.
    Simon Reilly and Nicos Neocleous like this.
  7. I have had a couple of experiences like that with the wines showing little structure and lots of simple fruit. But the same wine a couple of months later had pulled itself together. I've had the same experience with 2002s.
    Simon Reilly likes this.
  8. These were the 2015s we tasted in the Cellar Club event on Wednesday I posted on earlier:

    Domaine Dubreuil-Fontaine Volnay 2015
    Domaine Rodolphe Demougeot Pommard 1er Cru Charmots 2015
    Domaine Coquard-Loison-Fleurot Vosne-Romanée 2015

    None of them were, as you described your wines... ... "very sweet, almost jammy fruit with pretty much zero acidity" although, with the partial exception of the Pommard, all were very 'easy' but with sufficient acidity.
    I hope your wines improve to get closer to what you tasted originally.
    Simon Reilly and Nicos Neocleous like this.
  9. Thom, I've had the same experience. Disappointed in my low/mid-tier 09s; they don't live up to the sales patter. (Do they ever?) Hoping to experience the maturing into subtlety that Johnny describes .. otherwise they'll continue to be used as rather expensive cooking wine.
  10. Nine years old is a terrible age, James, I wouldn't relegate anything above Bourgogne to the pot yet. The rule with burgundy is that if it's not nice leave it alone rather than drink up no matter what tasting seems to tell us.
  11. Yes, in balance and perfectly drinkable.......

    ....just not that interesting, yet. (Which is what I think you are saying.)

    At least they are drinkable! You can drink or hold (hoping!) for more complexity/interest.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  12. I have some of the bertaut-gerbet CDNV 15 as well, it was so seductive at en primeur which isn’t always a good thing, but I brought some anyway ! I’ll pull a bottle to try this evening just in the name of research ofc
    Simon Reilly likes this.
  13. I attended the Burgfest tasting for the first time this year and went into the reds fearing to find at least some warm, flaccid and soupy wines. To the contrary, there was no shortage of freshness and much more terroir transparency than I was expecting. The fruit was rich but not particularly dark toned and neither was it a tiring or challenging vintage to taste.

    I left in no doubt that this is an absolutely top flight red Burgundy vintage, to challenge the likes of 2010 and 1999. All I would say is that some wines are certainly starting to close down and move beyond the puppy fat stage.

    Jasper might add his thoughts to this discussion. Alternatively, you might find them on his new site...

  14. My 2015 EP experiences were different to what others reported. With notable exceptions, I found many wines which I found too rich and full bodied. More Rhone than Beaune... But the (up to village level) wines i've been having in the past year have shown more balance. They are still a bit big for my taste, but quite enjoyable with food. I suspect though my tastes are not quite in the middle of the Gaussian
  15. How timely. I was wondering how long generally you should leave a Red Burg and I was thinking 8-10 years ideally min ?
    I’m not one for understanding or collecting burgundy and haven’t really fallen for the few I’ve tried.
    Only have a couple of cases of 15 red

    Morey-Saint-Denis 1er Cru La Riotte, Domaine Taupenot-Merme
    Vosne-Romanée 1er Cru Malconsorts, Domaine du Clos Frantin
  16. With individual adjustments for vintage/producer/vineyard, my general rule is drink within the first two or three years or else expect to hold fifteen years (and for some vintages like 1995, 1996, and 1999, it's more like twenty). Sometimes wines in the intermediate period (i.e., 3-15/20 years) will show very well, but at other times they will not.
  17. Thanks Claude.
    Best leave for a bit of time. Vintage notes / comments are interesting.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2018
  18. Just to follow up on this, I’ve tried another bottle of the berthaut-gerbet hcdn 15 and while it’s not a strong acid wine it’s got enough to balance the ripe fruit flavours and tasted pretty good to me, a J-M Fourrier Bourgogne rouge 15 was more surly and needed more time to unfurl

    Maybe there’s bottle/ storage /transport issues simon as these have performed roughly as expected
  19. Cheers Simon, I will retaste over Xmas and report back
  20. So far the 2015s I have had

    Christophe Buisson St Romain (red) and went through a case in no time as positively delicious and excellent balance of fruit and acidity (now taking delivery of the 2016s)

    George Lignier MSD - I think this does taste a bit heavy and possibly like a New World PN so having drunk a couple of bottles I am leaving the rest well alone.

    Dufouleur Freres - NSG Cuvee de Chateau - I have had a couple of bottles this is already drinkable and seems balanced and correct although I expect to cellar most of the remaining 12 case.

    Faiveley BR - this is a must buy if you can find it (I picked up a bottle from Whole Foods) excellent acidity fruit and complexity - all you could want in a BR.
  21. I've been guzzling Francois Feuillet's 2015 Hautes Cotes de Nuits for the past year and it's delicious. Hoping the same applies to some other CDNV and Santenay I've got coming for Xmas.

    Basically I second Tom's advice. If you don't like the way a young Burgundy tastes, just leave it alone for at least a few years before trying again. These wines change an astonishing amount in the bottle, in ways that are sometimes hard to believe. The truly mad thing to do is 'drink up' a wine you don't enjoy!
    johnny Shek and Thom Blach like this.

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