2018 Bordeaux EP kicks off

Discussion in 'UK Wine Forum' started by David Mansfield, Apr 16, 2019.

  1. The 2006 Pavie-Macquin was over-extracted and this seemed apparent when I tasted it just after bottling back in 2008. I haven't tasted it for years but I am not surprised it is currently 'unappreciated'.
  2. I saw Bernard post this when out in Bordeaux and found myself unable to agree with him. While parallels can be drawn between those regions which did less well in 2018 (some parts of Margaux, some Pessac, parts of St Emilion, parts of Pomerol) and a similar pattern seen in 2003, I think it is simplistic to lump them both together as 'hot vintages'. There was a heatwave in 2003 that saw temperatues over 40C for a period of days, and while 2018 saw prolonged heat and drought the temperatures just didn't get that high. While the southern Médoc saw significant defoliation in 2003, in 2018 only a few young vines suffered to that degree. I would not draw strong comparisons between the two vintages (nor between 2017 and 2018, for that matter). 2018 is not a re-run of 2003.

    There were great wines in 2003, and the northern Médoc wines from St Julien, Pauillac and St Estèphe are still on their way up, and delicious to drink now, over 15 years on. Top right bankers are still good - I am still enjoying Clos Fourtet from my own cellar, for example. Plenty of people are still talking about it - if they have the wines!

    On the other hand, lesser 2003s did fade incredibly quickly, including some big names from Pessac, and we might see wines from lesser terroirs from 2018 do the same. It is certainly not a 'buy anything' vintage. But that's why 2018 (and 2003 also) can not be considered a truly 'great' vintage, even if there are some really great wines.
    Rainer Guntermann and Nick Amis like this.
  3. - Bernard states about the same as you do e.g. there are great wines... and many lesser wines... in 2018
    - You may object to his short sentence on 2003s but I don't think he means there are no great wines in 2003, he only states that nobody labels 2003 as a great vintage anymore... which you agree with... and that many people who believed the hype that 2003 was a great vintage across the board got bitten...

    So it seems you are both in "violent" agreement on both vintages... including surely that 2003 and 2018 are not the same. Great wines, not a great vintage
    Nick Amis likes this.
  4. Thanks for the viewpoint Chris, always very interesting to read.

    You seem to have quite a positive take on the '03's - they have been definitely talked about here recently but with more mixed feelings about the quality.

    A recent offline had some solid if not genuinely great showings from St Estephe, and indeed Clos Fourtet, but a fair few misses too from not only RB, Pessac and Margaux but Pauillac and St Julien too.

    How many do you feel are really still on the way up?
  5. I think I have a positive take on the good wines - there are also lots of flops from the regions you describe.

    I haven't done a vintage-wide reassessment since 2013, but in the last two years have been really impressed by Montrose, Léoville-Poyferré, Leoville-Barton and a handful of others definitely still with a long future ahead of them. St Estephe and the Medoc also show well at the value level, eg Ormes de Pez, Potensac. Yes there are flops in these regions too though. Grand-Puy-Lacoste a notable disappointment, and I recall Lafon-Rochet has been outclassed by a number of cru bourgeois properties. Surprisingly, considering its position and the terroir, La Lagune has often shown well, and still had potential when I last tasted it, although I see my note is already 2.5 years old, so maybe it is time to look again!
  6. There seems to be a pecking order in receiving one's "I regret to inform you that you have been unsuccessful on this occasion" email from J&B. I appear to have got mine earlier than another forum member who is still waiting for the same news.
  7. I've also just picked up a double mag of Meyney. Seems like good value and it received positive reviews!
  8. Tom, does the Same apply to Palmer ? I read that it had similar yields and similar problems in the vineyard. Reviews seem to be much more positive though.
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  9. Got another 'It's nearly sold out!' email for Palmer 2018 :rolleyes:
    Graham Harvey likes this.
  10. Well it’s been “compared to 1961”.

    Curious one vendor typically citing JS scores omits JS’s score for Palmer: it’s only a JS 94-95 and he says in 38 years as a wine critic he’s never tasted anything like it.
    You can see the review in full on the Farr’s website.

    Personally, I don’t like the overdone style of Palmer of recent years.
    Last edited: May 10, 2019
  11. Interesting Lafite only has 13.3% alcohol, way lower than norm for the vintage.
  12. Already noted above Chiu.

    Brane Cantenac and DdeC are both 13.5%

    It's Calon at 14.9% that left me flabbergasted - it's in St Estephe!
    Chiu Lin likes this.
  13. Is there a positive correlation between alcohol degree and critiques notes? the higher alcohol the higher the rating?
  14. I'm not sure about Bordeaux but Robert Parker was a sucker for the rocket-fuel propelled 'luxury cuvee' Chateauneuf-du-Papes...some of which hit 16%.
    Alex Jagger likes this.
  15. No Calon Segur for me from TWS pre-order. Sounds like they reduced the case size too.

    Did anyone manage to get any?
  16. But he also gave plenty of big scores and great reviews to wines that would be considered classics eg Pichon 82, multiple vintages of La Mission, Haut Brion, Latour, Lafleur etc and not just in Bordeaux - he used to say that Huet was one of his favourite producers.

    Maybe all the improvements in viniculture have resulted in the best wines being made by the most famous terroirs, but reading thru lists of reviews it is striking how predictable they are. This was illustrated a few years ago when a critic distributed reviews without actually bothering going to taste the wines. It was a joke, but they corresponded pretty well to other critics notes. In my 30+ years of reading reviews, Parker is the only one who was willing to go out and stand up for wines that rocked the boat. Sure, not everyone liked the wines he did, but it definitely opened up peoples minds to other types of wine. He is also the only one who seemed brave enough to call out bad wine. I would still be a subscriber to the WA is he was still reviewing.
  17. Nor for me. There's quite a few disappointed people moaning about this on their forum tonight. I wonder how many bottles they got - hardly any, perhaps, given it was released so soon after the TWS offer went up.

    Fingers crossed for the other two wines I asked for...
  18. Its a pre order - they won't allocate wines until much later right?
  19. I and others who applied for Calon Segur have been emailed today to say we haven't been allocated any by TWS. No comment on other wines so far.
  20. I didn't know it worked like that, thankyou Nick.
  21. Managed to get a few bottles here in Ireland along with some Les Carmes Haut Brion.
  22. Informed yesterday that I've been successful with Carmes from TWS despite prior information to the contrary.

    Was Calon Segur reduced to 3 bottles?
  23. Are people not concerned about the alcohol in Calon - quite likely to be over 15% in reality?
  24. I was quoted 14.9% at the chateau, which I would expect to go down by about 0.4-0.5% between now and bottling.
  25. How would it go down?
    Reverse Osmosis?
    Doesn't barrel ageing normally increase alcohol?

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